Happy 2017, Tor.com! Have you missed me? Because I’ve missed you! Welcome back to this year’s first Wheel of Time Reread Redux!
Today’s Redux post will cover Chapters 50 and 51 of The Shadow Rising, originally reread in this post.
All original posts are listed in The Wheel of Time Reread Index here, and all Redux posts will also be archived there as well. (The Wheel of Time Master Index, as always, is here, which has links to news, reviews, interviews, and all manner of information about the Wheel of Time in general on Tor.com.)
The Wheel of Time Reread is also available as an e-book series! Yay!
All Reread Redux posts will contain spoilers for the entire Wheel of Time series, so if you haven’t read, read at your own risk.
And now, the post!
Before we begin, a reminder that the format of the Reread Redux has changed: from now on I am only going to be commenting on chapters in which my reaction has changed significantly from before, based on the knowledge I had at the time. Today, though, we didn’t actually skip anything, so yay!
Onward!
Chapter 50: Traps
Redux Commentary
[What happens: Rand gives Aviendha a gift with far more portent than he intended; Lanfear and Asmodean interrupt Rand’s PG sexytimes dream with his three ladies; the camp is attacked by Shadowspawn; Moiraine tries again to gain Rand’s confidence and fails; Rand finds out the Shaido have gone on ahead to Alcair Dal and determines to leave immediately as well; Mat hates on everyone and everything.]
This chapter is mainly only interesting at this point because of something I said in the commentary:
…“fated to be in love” is not necessarily much more fun a destiny than “fated to die to save the world”, when you really look at it, since from that perspective you’re stuck with the person in question whether you’re actually compatible with them or not. So I suppose it’s a matter of opinion whether Jordan meant the romance between Rand and Min/Elayne/Aviendha to be something that could have believably developed on its own, or if it is prophetically determined for some practical future-event-enabling thing. I guess we’ll find out?
Because, I ask myself, did we find out? And the answer is: I’m not sure, really. In terms of “being necessary for some practical future-event-enabling thing”, I’m finding myself a little hard-pressed to find anything specific that happened later on that required Rand to be in love with all three of his paramours for the result to be good.
There’s the triple bonding ceremony in WH, for instance, but I don’t know that we were ever shown that having a triple bond protected or supported him better than, say, a bond with just Elayne would have. Or just Aviendha. Maybe it did, but I don’t recall any indication that the, er, tripleness of the bond specifically had a unique effect, if you see what I’m saying.
You could point to the pivotal roles Elayne, Min, and Aviendha each played for the cause of the Light as being “necessary future events”, and certainly they were, but I think it’s pretty insulting to all three women to suppose that they wouldn’t have done what they did for the cause of right if they hadn’t been in love with Rand. After all, Egwene and Nynaeve (and countless other ladies) committed Big Damn Heroism perfectly well without being in love with Rand, and I really don’t think that Elayne or Aviendha or Min would have done any less. So I don’t feel like that counts as “necessary” either.
From a brutally clinical standpoint, in fact, the only “practical” result that came from Rand’s polyamory was the fact that he was able to sire six kids in under a year before he “died”, which he certainly wouldn’t have been able to do with only one… er, consort.
(Lover? Beloved? It’s kind of crazy that at this late date, I still can’t decide exactly what to call them in relation to Rand. Suggestions welcome!)
It’s fairly unbelievable that he was able to accomplish such a feat with two women, really. But even that brings up the obvious: that Min didn’t become pregnant with Rand’s Superbabies, did she. So if the only prophetical point of his three loves was to ensure that the Dragon’s genes were (thoroughly) passed on, why did she need to be there?
This may seem like pointless nitpicking (and maybe it is) but my attention was caught by it because it does seem to indicate that, as far as I can tell, the reasons for Jordan’s decision to create this situation in the first place appear to remain… ambiguous.
And I don’t want to go down the road from “ambiguous” to “prurient”, even though that might seem like the obvious progression, because even with all the weirdness of it I honestly never got that vibe from the whole situation. But in reflecting on it now, I do confess to find myself, even now, a little baffled at what the motivation was for creating Rand’s love quadrangle in the first place.
Chapter 51: Revelations in Tanchico
Redux Commentary
[What happens: Elayne and Nynaeve fail at chopsticks, and discover that the Black Ajah are in the Panarch’s Palace and oh yeah Egeanin is a Seanchan, whoops.]
This chapter is also only notable at this point for the commentary, and really it shouldn’t even be that, but I can’t let it pass because what the hell, past Leigh:
…this chapter pretty accurately demonstrates one of the major problems with people, in that they often maddeningly insist on being individuals worthy of admiration even when their cultural background contains everything you might abhor. I imagine an analogous situation in our world might be making friends with someone you think is really cool, and then discovering they are a member of the Nazi party.
Uh, no, past me, that is not an analogous situation, at all. Being a member of a hate group is NOT the same thing as being born into a nation that has heinous cultural beliefs, even if those heinous cultural beliefs are essentially the same ones that are espoused by the hate group. They are not the same because one is a choice and the other is not, hello.
Egeanin did not choose to be born Seanchan, after all. The truth of which is best indicated by how, once she was enlightened as to the essential heinousness of her cultural beliefs, she immediately began rejecting them. That’s a completely different situation than someone who (presumably) has fully comprehended the beliefs of a hate group in all their essential heinousness, and decides to join them (again, presumably) because of those beliefs.
This is also, as a side note, why I have a much harder time with Tuon than I ever did with Egeanin. Because Egeanin’s response to learning the whole sul’dam thing was a lie and that channelers are just people was to be horrified, and to repudiate the entire practice as well as she could without actually getting herself killed. Whereas Tuon’s response when she learned the same thing was, basically, to shrug and be all, whatevs, can’t fix it, so sad, moving on. I suppose to some people that might make her an effective leader, to prioritize her realm’s ability to defend itself over the lives it destroys to achieve that defense, but as far as I am concerned it makes her kind of a monster. There are some prices that are not worth paying.
(And in that vein, to that guy I mentioned at that party who thought Katrina was a deserved judgment on New Orleans: fuck you, guy. I still kind of wish I’d thrown my drink in your face that night.)
Anyway, my point is, past me had extreme Analogy Fail, and I am sorry. I’m trying to get better!
And that’s what I got for now, kids! I hope your 2017 has been going better so far than 2016 did, and please come back and join me in two weeks for more!
I think sister-wives is the appropriate term considering Elayne and Aviendha’s bond, Rand and Aviendha’s heritage and Min… well Min just has to deal with it.
Also, I think Rand should have just ended up with Min. He had flings/relationships with Elayne and Aviendha but he stayed with Min and they had a real relationship/partnership. Just my humble opinion.
In the interest of (some) fairness to Tuon, Egeanin could not channel. She was neither a learner nor a sparker. Tuon would have had to embrace a part of her she had been raised to condemn / despise (the ability to channel), as well as reject the Seanchan’s beliefs about sul’dam. Not sure if this could or should affect your opinion of her. It doesn’t mine; I also dislike her. Maybe, if Jordan had lived to write the Seanchan trilogy, he would have turned her around, but he didn’t, so we’re stuck with what we’ve got.
Aviendha – Bound Rand to the Aiel, making him see them as more than just tools. Without her “requiring a boon” of him, the disastrous future she saw in the wayback/wayforward ter’angreal would have come to pass. Also sired offspring, as you mentioned.
Elayne – Rand’s “first love” (his affection for Egwene was more crush-level than true romantic love, I’d argue, and ended up being brotherly love), she was vital in Rand’s education on how to rule. She was also required for all three of them to bond him as a warder, and of course sired offspring as you mention.
Min – Arguably the most important of the three. Min was Rand’s one link to his humanity for so long, as his constant companion. If not for her, he likely would have given in to his dark thoughts much earlier than he did – perhaps too early to pull back out of them. In addition, she was the only one to figure out the secret of Callandor, making her (again, arguably) more important for the Last Battle than the other two combined (though again, Rand’s trust of both Elayne and Aviendha made them very key to the parts they played, as well).
Now, you could argue whether or not they all three needed to be lovers with Rand to still fill the roles they did. I don’t know that there’s a definitive answer to that, though. I feel like they had to, yes. But maybe not?
Re: analogy fail – yeah, that’s different all right…but what about thinking someone was awesome and then finding out that they were part of the Nazi party but only because their father had been, and now that they knew what it was all about, they were horrified and trying to get out?
Min was necessary because she was the best at dealing with mad Rand. She was the only person he really trusted. Maybe the other two were needed because Min alone couldn’t bond anyone. One channeler might have been enough for that, but three is a more symbolic number that fits better with mythological associations. And the sister ceremony was how they figured out the triple bond.
Leigh — If you met Party Guy at a stereotypical college party, then his statement about New Orleans is (in addition to being outright deplorable) is like a pot calling the kettle black.
Re Leigh’s comments on Chapter 50 in the initial re-read. I believe that Melaine was going to say she would lay the bridal wreath at Rand’s feet on behalf of Aviendha. I believe there is a scene later on where Aviendha tells Sorilea that she will think about the young man Sorilea suggested. She then tells Egwene that she has no intention of talking further with that man. However, if she told Sorilea what Aviendha truly thought of him, Aviendha would pick out the bridal wreath herself and force Aviendha to lay it at his feet.
I wonder if when I read this scene for the first time I knew Melaine was going to say bridal wreath before Amys stopped Melaine short.
This is the first time that I think that the entire purpose behind the Trollocs and Draghkar attack was no more than a diversion for the Shaido and Couladin to get a jump on Rand. I had never equated the two. I think Asmodean had told Couladin there would be a major distraction among the Taardad’s camp and that Couladin should head towards the Clan Chief’s meeting place while Rand was distracted.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
I still don’t get WHERE the flame Asmodean got the Dragkhar and Trollocs (were there no Myrddraal?) and how he “sent” them to attack here. Even if there was an unknown Waygate in the vicinity, it doesn’t sound like he was away for very long. Did he Travel somewhere to get them, and then send them through the Ways unsupervised? It’s like there’s someplace people can go to stock up on Shadowspawn. It’s like he called someone and ordered a delivery. Gah. How rude of RJ to hinder my Shadowspawn headcanoning by leaving such Important Questions unanswered. :-p
@3: The future Aviendha saw got averted?! I apparently missed that. I must read up on it.
It is a bit weirdly improbable that Rand impregnated Elayne and Aviendha in one-night stands, and never impregnated Min despite their long relationship. But such things happen.
My take on why the plot required Rand to be in love with all three women (and have all three in love with him): to keep him off balance. From what we see in Randland, monogamy is the general norm. Being in love with more than one woman makes him uncomfortable with himself (since he feels like he’s doing something wrong) and prevents him from getting too strong too fast. It also keeps him from focusing all his attention on just one woman and lets the plot move forward. Is it necessary? No, not that I can see. But it works.
Wasn’t exactly anyway Tuon could just accept everybody else’s views on Sul’dam without damning herself. She is after all, a Sul’dam herself and I feel that’s one of the main motivators to go with the path she did. After so many generations Seanchan society is conditioned to think of damane a certain way. The damane themselves have more or less accepted it.
She had a civil war on her hands, and the Last Battle on the horizon. Correcting the plight of the damane was very low on the list of priorities at that point. Not when it would pretty much jeopardise her standing at both the looming civil war and the Last Battle.
Not to say that I like her. She’s a bit hypocritical in how she laid it out to Mat. But realistically there wasn’t much she could have done.
If Tuon had given an indication of “ew, that’s terrible, how will I make this right?”, I would like her.
Rand, Elmindreda, Elayne, and Aviendha were bred by the Pattern to bond as they did as Kimball Kinnison and Clarissa MacDougal were bred by the Arisians to bear 3rd Stage Lensmen. And he would have failed without any of them, as mentioned by Kalvin Kingsley @3.
RE: Chapter 50:
I agree with Leigh that Min, Elayne, and Aviendha would have done the “right” thing even if they were not in love with Rand. However, would the three ladies have, necessarily, been in the same situations with the same amount of knowledge and context to make the same “right” decisions and take the same “right” actions? That’s a tough answer to ascertain.
Min may not have had kids from Rand, but we need to remember that all three of them lent something different to Rand. Min, in my opinion, kept Rand as normal-human as possible in the time they were in Caemlyn/Cairhien together. Also, she got really into the philosophy stuffs and one has to assume that that knowledge was beneficial to Rand…and who knows if Rand would have been able to come to the same philosophical conclusions without Min. I think @3 sums this up perfectly for all three of the ladies, although I don’t agree with @3’s depiction of Rand and Elayne’s relationship.
Finally, there is the concept that the end of the series isn’t necessarily the end of the story. Elayne, Aviendha, and Min could have extremely important roles to play in the world post-Last Battle than we can imagine. Their known relationship to the Dragon Reborn could have something to do with this too. But that’s simply speculation. So the “being necessary for some practical future-event-enabling thing” idea doesn’t have to be concretely spelled out in the books themselves.
Don’t forget, too, when talking about Rand’s relationships, that he survived the series, they knew it, and as far as I know there’s nothing to indicate that they never saw him again. It could well be that there were things of great import that happened after the series ended that would not have taken place sans the triple relationships.
@6 Min did not get pregnant by Rand because she was purposefully taking a contraceptive (Birthbane tea or some such, iirc). She specifically called out Elayne for not taking it when they had their little ‘rendevous’ following the triple-bonding ceremony by saying something like “she’ll get with child from this, she should have taken the tea”. Also, I think Aviendha was impregnated after two ‘one night stands’, the first one being the Far Snows Dance.
I think the reasons for the quadrangle (?) are such that Rand learned from, and was affected by each woman while also benefiting from the love and support each woman offered, even at his darkest moments.
Also, as pointed out above, the three would not have necessarily been in the ‘right’ position at the ‘right’ time with the ‘right’ motivations to do what they needed to do. Not that they would not have done what they could, but they just would not have been in the right circumstances to do what they did. That’s the only explanation I can think of, at least.
How were they planning on being with Rand if he survived the Last Battle? Were they all going to live together? Take turns to be with him? Or would there be some wild foursomes?
@12: Ah. When Min foresaw Elayne getting pregnant, she wondered if she herself ever would. But I guess she was contemplating a more distant future, while trying to not get pregnant in the current tumultuous time. Sensible.
True, Aviendha did spend two nights with Rand and got pregnant the second time. They’re just so far apart that I was considering each of them a one-night stand.
Unless they ever release RJ’s notes and it’s explicitly stated otherwise, my position will always be that RJ _intended_ for Aviendha’s “quads” to be twins for each of Min and Aviendha, with the just-completed bonding causing Min to misinterpret her own kids as Aviendha’s.
I realize that BWS wrote it differently, and it’s completely possible that RJ really did intend for Aviendha to have quadruplets (and that the Companion states they are quads), but I have always really liked that theory, and there’s certainly some circumstantial evidence in favor of it. (I won’t bore you with the details.)
As an aside, I’ll wave to you guys as I just passed this point in my first re-read of the entire series—I just started TFoH. (I re-read everything leading up to the release of AMoL, and have since re-read AMoL, but this is the first time I’ll have gone from start to finish re-reading everything.)
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it was my understanding that Aviendha got pregnant AFTER the Last Battle by Moridin bodied Rand which accounted for Min’s viewing of the children and their descriptions from the averted Aiel future.
Authorial fancy, plain and simple. My thoughts on this haven’t changed. Three caricatures of a certain type of woman, all with benefits and each with enough window dressing that it softens the glare coming from the window of sexual transparency. Rand being the more accessible character for a male reader to identify with, to look through immersively so to speak. The plainest explanation is the most sensible one if we’re honest with ourselves. Even so, I can acknowledge the fact that it’s well written.
@16 We never see Moridin-bodied Rand meet up with any of his three paramours, he just rides off into the sunset and lights his pipe by funky pattern-controlling-not-channeling-magic. Rand spent a night (or more) with Aviendha before the last battle, when the forces of light were gathering. We are told that Aviendha is expecting sometime after this (perhaps at the very end, I can’t remember). This does not preclude future children resulting from reuniting after the conclusion of the book, of course.
@12 Yes, I see now what you mean; the two “one night stands” were far enough apart that there would not be any question of which one resulted in conception.
gadget @18: Can you find the confirmation that Aviendha’s pregnant at the end? My Internet search skills have failed me. (And the Kindle’s search feature sucks—why in the world would you set it up so it shows you all forms of a word when you search; e.g., “expecting” finds “expect”, “expects”, “expected”….)
While I agree that a lot of the romance quadrangle came from Jordan’s fancy. I believe some of it goes back to his desire to try and tie the WoT world into many of the older legends and myths, especially the Arthur legends, with the conceit that some of the names were changed over time. Elayne, Morgase, Gawyne, Al’Thor and Egwene (Gwenivere) were all pulled directly from there. I haven’t quite picked out the other legends, but I’m sure there’s a pairing for Min (Elmindedra or Serenla or maybe the Seachan name for her) and another name Rand goes by in the series. I suspect we can find another for either Aviendha or another close female Aiel character and something to do with the root for Car’a’Carn.
The fact that he was able to just run with this idea and still make a good story out of it is fascinating.
Even Lews Therin (Lord of the Morning) and Lanfear (Daughter of Night) is a callback to likely Egyptian or some other mythology with Illyena forming part of the story as well. You probably had to have asked Jordan to get the exact tie in but I’m sure it’s there.
bad_platypus @19. I do not believe there is a direct statement in the text that Aviendha is pregnant. She does not say to another character or thinks to herself that she is pregnant (for example, she has not had her period and 3 months and/or the Wise Ones used some weave to determine she was pregnant). However, Aviendha does have a thought in the text that I believe is meant to lead the reader to believe she is pregnant. During the fight at Shayol Ghul Aviendha admonishes herself for drinking too much water lately. She then rationalizes to herself, what the hell, this is the Last Battle so who cares if I drink too much water.
I took this to mean that she was drinking more than normal as she was pregnant. I believe being so close to the Bore during the Last Battle speed up her pregnancy. It is noted by characters that during the Last Battle time moved faster at Shayol Ghul. I also think that Min’s vision of something unusual about her future pregnancy had to do with Aviendha her spending so much time at Shayol Ghul during the early stages of her pregnancy.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
I like the love pyramid because each of the three women have aspects that tie into Rand’s (convulted) ancestry.
Min is from the “backwater” region near Two Rivers but still has traveled enough to be somewhat cosmopolitan like Tam and is definately the most “nurturing” of the three when it comes to Rand (like Kari).
Aviendha is Aiel (like his biological father) and a Maiden (like his biological mother).
Elayne is the Daughter-Heir (like his biological mother) and from Caemlyn (like his adopted mother).
A cool little thing about the Whelps is they have backgrounds akin to Rand’s. While they obviously share share one thing in common (children of Rand). The cool part is their differences match Rand’s ancestory: children of a Daughter-Heir and an Aiel.
I think from a meta-level, it was part author fantasy as well as the symbolism of 3. But in story I agree with the above explanations (as well as being in the right place at the right time) and especially that Min was the most crucial at keeping Rand grounded.
I just took Rand’s three wives as a means of tying him to the land and the peoples he was meant to protect. Remember that like almost everything in Rand’s life having three women wasn’t so much his choice as mandated by the Pattern. Elayne to nobility of the Westlands, Min to the common folk of the Westlands, and Aviendha to the Aiel.
It’s not perfect, but it also echoes the series’ predilection for presenting things in threes(and other numbers, five and twelve appear a lot too). Three Ta’veren, three ooh-ooh girls, three primary Aiel Dreamwalkers, Three Aes Sedai Oaths, three Sitters per Ajah… etc.
The Maidens may often be annoying in how they react to Rand and Aviendha, and in how they treat him, but the scene where Adelin realizes what the bracelet is for, asks for no price, and drinks from the cup in the name of honor always makes me a little tight in the chest. The Maidens may have given up their children to others to raise, but it doesn’t mean they didn’t care or never had regrets…and having one come back now, and being the Car’a’carn, means everything to them. This scene really underscores that, and makes me willing to forgive a lot of their behavior. (Not the beatings, though. That’s still screwed up.)
The thing with Rand and the Wise Ones is also painful because both sides have a point; Rand has his own plans that don’t concern the Aiel, and he can’t be having them second-guessed and undermined (or almost as bad, reported to Moiraine)…but the Aiel are absolutely right that he needs to care about them and not see them as simply tools, even beyond the prophecy and saving them. (I also always agreed how Melaine’s sentence was going to finish, IRT Aviendha. Amusing in a dark comedy sort of way that Rand thought she was going to say a trap, since if he’d known what she really meant, he still might have called it that. At this point Aviendha herself certainly would. And so did past Leigh!)
Re: the love quadrangle and its purpose: First I have to make one small disagreement, for while all of Rand’s loves were good people and would want to fight the Shadow and see the Light win, I am not altogether certain either Aviendha and Min would have done what they did, or as much as they did, if they hadn’t loved Rand. I.e., their love for him caused them to be drawn into events they otherwise would not have been. Once there, observing said events would have made their own inner morality guide them to still step in and do what they did, but they had to get there first, and it seems this love was necessary–in Min’s case because her issues with the viewings already made her want to stay out of the limelight as much as possible so that left to her own devices she’d happily have stayed in Baerlon, and in Aviendha’s case because she was (rightfully and sensibly so) focused only on the Aiel and their needs until Rand came into the picture (and brought Elayne and Egwene with him); while she does still care more about them than anyone else, by the end of the series she’s definitely learned to look beyond the Aiel’s interests and is willing to help the world at large, and it’s because of her love for Rand that this is so. She also helps cause a number of changes for the better in Elayne’s character, making her a better ruler and match for Rand, so there’s that too.
All that said though, I do agree overall that the important things the three loves did for the Light weren’t necessarily predicated on them loving Rand. So I think (even though there isn’t any specific proof spelling it out in the series) that the reason he had to love them all was in fact because of the triple bond. Namely, considering Aviendha speaks of the “veins of gold” when the bonding happens and this same phrase is the title of the chapter in TGS where Rand has his epiphany on Dragonmount, I think this implies the bond was important to his choice there. Perhaps he needed that much love (or the grounding in goodness and hope and determination) to be able to resist falling over the Despair Event Horizon–in which case the bond was key in his reintegration with Lews Therin which was obviously very critical. It’s also possible the strength of one Warder bond alone would not have been enough to help him withstand the unHealable wounds, to resist the madness as long as he did, or to be able to face the Dark One. And finally, it’s also possible the bond may have given him the strength to survive long enough to make the switch with Moridin. Again, none of this is spelled out in the books, but it’s my theory anyway.
Rand’s dream at the pond: I have to agree with past-Leigh, I love that Asmo had the chutzpah to disapprove so openly of what Lanfear was doing. The fact she immediately appeared fully-garbed on the shore shows she actually was chastised by what he said; whether it’s because she didn’t want him to think Lews Therin was all she thought about, or if she actually cares about propriety, isn’t clear though I suspect the former.
This also marks the moment, of course, with what I consider the infamous reveal of Asmodean having been hiding in a hole when she found him, since when coupled with him mentioning in the next book that he had been in Arad Doman was a neon sign showing he had connections with Graendal and she should be suspect number one in killing him once his ‘treachery’ painted a target on him. I’ll say more later, but one thing I have to wonder (connecting to my commentary a few posts ago) is this: the impression I got is that once the patch over the Bore thinned enough to release the Forsaken, they all went on their own to places they thought would suit them/would help the cause of the Shadow/were free of other Forsaken. This would seem to be the exception, unless Asmodean didn’t know Graendal was in Arad Doman when he went there or he actually got there first.
But I suspect since he isn’t the sort to set up a power base that he actually did go there specifically to visit the Terhana Library, once he heard about it from someone. Because while all the Forsaken would need Third Age information to know how to fit in, he’s the only one other than Ishy who I think would want the knowledge for its own sake. (You’d think Balthamel would have too, but he didn’t get the chance to do anything upon release, as Aran’gar he was immediately placed in Salidar, and her thoughts make it clear she considers the modern cultures primitive and beneath her–I wouldn’t be surprised if Balthamel felt the same way back in the Age of Legends–so she probably would have learned only enough to get by and wouldn’t care about it as a true scholar.) And since the only other significant libraries in Randland are in the White Tower (obviously off-limits) and Cairhien (racked by civil war and far too close to both Rahvin and Be’lal’s power bases, plus Bandar Eban’s is just bigger and better), the choice seems obvious. Though I do wonder if once they got to Cairhien in the next book, Asmo ever went to the library there too.
Anyway, all of this is just my way of saying I rather respect Asmo for the route he took and the reasons for it, and I think it paid off too since he seems to me the one Forsaken who fit in best in the modern Age. (As in, seeming normal and beneath suspicion.) That this ended up leading to him crossing paths with Graendal and learning info about her that later marked him for elimination is just a sad unintended result of his choice.
Poor Seana, dying so soon and ending up forgotten by everyone. But Rand has a lot on his mind (though I bet he adds her to his list retroactively) and the Aiel are used to death, it seems. People had wondered what she meant by it being “too dangerous” that night to watch Rand’s dreams, which suggests she sensed or divined Lanfear’s presence, but in retrospect I have to wonder if that comment couldn’t have been foreshadowing her own death? Also, just a reminder that at this point the Draghkar had been kind of forgotten about and even dismissed as threats compared to Fades and the Forsaken, but this scene reminds us why they are dangerous and disturbing as hell. I don’t think it’s an accident that the way their victims act is similar to Graendal’s Compulsion victims.
While Melindhra’s observation about Mat might be a hint to her Darkfriend status (giving an obvious and weak compliment to his analysis to get in on his good side), or just the fact that as a Shaido she might not be very good at battle strategy (*rimshot*), it is important that it be recognized this was a feint, for the simple fact it’ll make us wonder why. Mat’s surmise it was so the Draghkar could get to Rand has validity but doesn’t make much sense in the long run; unless Asmo was as dismissive of Rand’s abilities as the other male Forsaken, he had to know Rand wouldn’t fall prey to it. So maybe he did just intend to thin out the ranks around Rand (in which case managing to kill one of the dreamwalker Wise Ones actually was something of a coup for him–imagine what would have happened it if it had been Amys who died!). Of course we find out later the real reason was to distract so he could put the dragons on Couladin (if he hadn’t already–I think the last post where he was holding his arms proves it’s already happened) or so the Shaido could get their headstart on Alcair Dal.
Not sure about Moiraine’s quote, but even if it isn’t true, Moiraine could say it if she believed it was possible. And who knows, really, but considering how strained the Pattern gets by the end with Rand still as the center of the Age Lace, I’d say her fear if it was real was unfounded. Even if Rand had turned to the Dark Side, he still would have been the center–just of the Pattern’s complete unraveling. So she probably just said this out of desperation, though if it were possible I can see why she’d be afraid–not only could such a thing leave Rand more vulnerable, but whoever the Pattern did settle on would end up with undue influence (or several would, if it jumped around a while before coming back to Rand). It also isn’t clear, if this could actually happen, what that would mean for Mat and Perrin; would they as the other legs of the tripod be able to pull the Pattern back to Rand? Would this ‘burst’ have resulted in their own influence waning or breaking down? Or even worse, would they too have become untethered from the Pattern for a while?
Couladin influencing Sevanna against Rand: while it’s interesting to speculate what might have happened if he hadn’t gotten to do this, I don’t think it took much influencing. Even without Couladin, Sevanna is too power-hungry to have accepted Rand as her superior in any way.
Mat wishing he was with Perrin is funny, since if he were he’d still be in battles and facing Shadowspawn. Whether he’d enjoy facing the Whitecloaks instead is up for debate, but they’re certainly less dangerous than the Shaido. But then there’s also Fain and Slayer to consider…the former might have gone far toward establishing an enmity between them to culminate at the Last Battle, and the latter would have been interesting seeing him deal with Mat’s luck. But it was not meant to be.
On Chapter 51, I absolutely love the chapter title because as usual it is so spot on. One of the things Jordan loved to do, which I also love, is having lots of plots and schemes and secrets interwoven or going on in the background, and then have them explode all at once. Here we have not just finding out Egeanin is Seanchan (and knows about the sul’dam), but finding out where the Black Ajah is–and in the process, because the Whitecloaks are involved, they end up figuring out Carridin is a Darkfriend, though this isn’t confirmed till Noal tells Mat about it in Ebou Dar. We also have the hint that Nynaeve is going to break through the Compulsion and remember Moghedien…which sets up for the next chapter where even more gets revealed. I just love it.
Also, Nynaeve and Elayne pretending to take credit for the info about the Black Ajah and Egeanin, as much as it may be annoying, is also hilarious, especially when the wind is taken out of their sails.
As to Egeanin’s situation and what it is or is not analogous to in real life…I think another apt comparison would be to someone who had been raised in and indoctrinated by a cult, or any group with cult-like leanings, only to later have their eyes opened, realize what a horrible way of life and beliefs the cult had, work to escape, and if successful proceed to speak out against it, show why it is wrong, and save others from it if possible. The most prominent examples of this phenomenon I can think of would be a) all those women who escape from polygamy cults b) former members of the Westboro Baptist Church and c) that one prominent son of a white nationalist who managed to escape from Stormfront and the groups which support it. What this proves is something we need to remember going forward: that as much as people can be twisted into dangerous, insane, irrational mindsets by their upbringing and/or charismatic demagogues, it is still possible for them to see the light and be saved–and in doing so they often become the best allies decent folk can have. So while I wouldn’t advocate seeking such people out (unless you can do so in a very safe, controlled environment where you have strength in numbers and they don’t) and sadly the majority of them will still remain dangerous and beyond help, we shouldn’t dismiss the possibility either, as there could be many Egeanins out there willing to listen. It’s just a matter of finding them, without being lost in pointless, possibly deadly conflicts with those who won’t.
@2 Simka: Good point. That’s like asking a white nationalist to accept they have some black heritage, or a fundamentalist to accept they are gay (not in the sense that those things are equal to being a possibly dangerous magical mutant, or that any of the three are actually something which is evil and dangerous, but that the oppressors in question all think of those they oppress in this way). Such a revelation can indeed be very enlightening in terms of one’s mindset and morality, once the truth is accepted, but it’s that acceptance which is so difficult.
@@.-@ KalvinKingsley: It’s a difficult decision really. I think all of those things could have been done without love, but I admit the love made them easier (and in the case of viewing the Aiel differently, and being willing to both grant Aviendha a boon and listen to Min regarding his humanity, it might actually have been impossible without the love).
@@.-@ birgit: Another reason, related to the mythological three, is something I once saw pointed out on the WOTFAQ I believe–that by having the three women he did, Rand gets to have all the kinds of loves which heroic protagonists get to have: the princess, the warrior, and the (relatively) normal girl. Also considering the theme of legend fades to myth, it may be the reason three were needed was so that over time they could all get conflated with each other and thus result in the kind of Hero’s Lover we have today in a lot of our mythology–ones whose backgrounds are so contradictory and multiple-choice-past that scholars think they must have come from different characters/different versions of the story mutating over time and being combined together. In this case it just happens to be true, and Jordan including them all is a way to show us how it might happen.
@6 AeronaGreenjoy: LOL! I wondered that myself. Maybe…maybe Asmo knows how to use Portal Stones, and thus could quickly get Shadowspawn from the Blight, if there are any near the Town for example? Otherwise the Ways does seem to be the only option; it could be Natael is offscreen for longer than we know, and if Machin Shin is waiting around for Rand then it might not be able to go after the Shadowspawn in time.
Also, maybe it has to do with channeling? We know using the One Power affects one’s health (the long lifespan), could it also make it more likely to have multiple-birth pregnancies? We know Lews Therin and Ilyena had children plural, but not how many or whether any were twins and such.
@7 Nick31: Interesting theory!
@10 Matt M: That was my take on the three loves as well–that even if they would have done the right thing without loving Rand, they wouldn’t have the same information, context, or even location to either do the right thing or know what it was if they didn’t love him.
@11 Porphyrogenitus: Another good point.
@12 gadget: I forgot about that. I still like my explanation though, and wonder how channeling affects other aspects of health like that.
@17 CireNaes: A bit cynical, but it has validity.
@20 Nik_the_Heratik: And that was also my conclusion! :)
@22 AndrewHB: I completely missed the significance of that thought! I thought it was just a way of showing how much Aviendha had changed, from an Aiel in the Waste who was awed by water and alternately angered or confused by seeing people “waste” it though bathing or excess drinking, to someone who can now drink lots of it without comment. But no reason it can’t be both, Jordan often did make his prose work on more than one level.
And that is a theory I’ve never seen about the pregnancy and Min’s viewing of it being unusual. Nice!
@25 alreadymad: Yes, exactly.
@macster: Dragkhar song reminds me of Compulsion, too. I don’t know if there’s any actual similarity, though, since absolutely nobody ever asked RJ anything about Dragkhar, going by the complete lack of such questions on Theoryland. I don’t get why more people aren’t interested in those bizarre creatures. *sulk*